Re: Classics go to Moab III

by Ty Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:53 am

So I'm going to go out on a limb and disagree with Andrew on the needs for triple threat. Yes this is the trail that I blew my ring and pinion, but on the same trip 2 XJs on 33s 1 locker finished no problem not needing help, and 1TJ on 33s open diffs same story. If you know your rig and your capabilities behind the wheel you can do it on 33s and open, but you are more likely to break something than if you had 35s and a locker.

by **Kevin** Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:20 am

I can see his point though that if we're 4 to 8 trucks and average on the small side of 35s, that a trail that's already really long and fairly hard is probably too much to slice off in one day.

I'm totally down to take it on, but Mike and Brad for sure won't be and probably not Brady either. Maybe we should save Triple Threat for its own trip?

by Monsteryota Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:48 am

I'm game to take it on. I won't have room in mine for extra ppl though do to wife kids and parents........

by mikebontoft Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:51 am

I dunno Kevin I might be down... but still likely not. I've changed my mind to going for 255/85r16's which is like a 33x10.5.

by **Andrew** Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:49 pm

Kevin wrote:Maybe we should save Triple Threat for its own trip?

If we have enough rigs that can make it through, we could always have others jump in with us for the day...

by **Andrew** Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:55 pm

Thardy wrote:So I'm going to go out on a limb and disagree with Andrew on the needs for triple threat. Yes this is the trail that I blew my ring and pinion, but on the same trip 2 XJs on 33s 1 locker finished no problem not needing help, and 1TJ on 33s open diffs same story. If you know your rig and your capabilities behind the wheel you can do it on 33s and open, but you are more likely to break something than if you had 35s and a locker.

I should have been more specific. The "requirements" I put up there are Toyota-specific. Very Happy

We love our rigs, but out of the box, Toyota's suck at off-roading. I wheeled a Toyota for years with stock gearing, open diffs and 33's. It SUCKED!!!!! I couldn't get anywhere. In contrast, my FIL has an XJ on 33's, stock gearing and open diffs and he followed us through every difficult trail in Moab. The automatic helped him a ton and it almost seemed that the XJ had some sort of limited slip, where the power would transfer to the wheel with traction when you slightly apply the brakes. Plus, with the solid front axle...very beneficial.

If everyone had "stockish" TJ's or XJ's, I would agree that we would probably be OK...but not Toyotas...stockish...with IFS...

I love stock Jeeps, and very built Toyotas... Wink

by Ty Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:03 pm

I completely agree with everything you said. I would say it's is a trail you can run if you have time to. But your not guaranteed to get it in one piece! I love the trail and will do it again but now I'm on 35s with 2 lockers! Twisted Evil

by mikebontoft Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:41 pm

lol well in that case my stock ZJ should be fine since I have an LSD rear.

by **Kevin** Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:53 am

Speaking of trails, here's a post I made in the T4R.org thread.

Here are some trails to consider, though there's way more than this (ratings are mine on a 3-10 scale, with a 3- being drivable by a new driver in a stock truck without needing frequent spotting, 4+ being about as much as a newish driver with a stock truck can handle without body damage becoming a real possibility, and a 8 or higher requiring a skilled driver with 33s and at least one locker). On trails I haven't personally driven (most of them!), I'm basing my rating on the descriptions from TrailDamage.com and the Charlie Wells guidebook, feel free to provide input if you have experience on any of these. Also, I know at least @liveoffroad wanted to find some trails to push his truck, so anybody feel free to suggest more if I haven't included the kind of wheeling you want to see. I don't mind leading on a trail I haven't driven, but I'd much prefer to turn those duties over to somebody who HAS driven a particular trail if possible, so please volunteer if you're willing.

7 Mile Rim (5)
Kane Creek(6+)
Hells Revenge(5+)
Fins-n-things(4+)
Porcupine Rim (4)
Tower Arch/Eye of the Whale (3+)
Chicken Corners (3)
Gemini Bridges (3-)
Long Canyon/Schafer Switchbacks (3-)
Bull Canyon (3-)
Hey Joe Canyon (3+)
Elephant Hill (4+)
Triple Threat (Poison Spider, Golden Spike, Gold Bar Rim) (6+/7)
Strike Ravine (4+)
Flat Iron Mesa (4+)
Area BFE (3- to 10)

*snip*

I'm guessing folks will be trickling in over the 23rd and 24th, so I propose the following loose schedule.
Thursday 24th: Tour Arches Nat'l Park - mostly short hikes, some light wheeling out towards Tower Arch to whet the appetite. Alternatively, we could drive the Long Canyon/Schafer Trail loop and visit Dead Horse Point. Highly scenic and mostly non-technical either way.
Friday 25th: Get to know eachother with a day on Sand Flats Road - Porcupine Rim, Fins and Things, and Hells Revenge. This is classic Moab wheeling, with enough obstacles to keep the built trucks entertained but nothing too hard that we can't spot a stock truck through.
Saturday 26th: This is the day we split up, if we're going to. If you have a particular trail that you absolutely must visit, this is the day to do it. Post up if you're willing to lead a trail on this day and what trail you want to go on, and hopefully we can get a good mix of stock-friendly and stupid-hard stuff going here to make everyone happy.
Sunday 27th: Go South. Start the day on Flat Iron Mesa, then take Strike Ravine into Area BFE and spend the rest of the day screwing around there - it's a giant playground, with a couple of 7+ and harder trails and an open area where you can try any obstacle that suits your fancy.
Monday 28th: Anybody still in town? I expect most of us will be pulling out today, but if there's enough trucks still around we can do whatever seems fun. Maybe a trip south to Elephant Hill?

Just some ideas. I wrote that when I thought there were going to be more stock trucks along, so the trails are maybe conservative at this point?

by Ty Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:15 am

That's a pretty good list!! I've ran a few of those trails and heard that the others are pretty fun. Kevin are you sure you're up for Kanes creek? I've hear there are some pretty off camber spots that can get pretty hairy!! You guys would all like Strike Ravine. That was the first trail I ran in my runner on 33s. Long Canyon is EASY basically dirt road with a couple small rock gardens, but the scenery is definitely worth running it. Triple threat has already been discussed, my opinion stands that it is doable if you know your tuck and your capabilities behind the wheel, but probably would be best for it's own trip. Hell's and Fin's is are obvious choices. Both capture the beauty and spirit of Moab. If I were choosing, I would say Strike Ravine, Elephant Hill, 7 Mile Rim, Kane Creek, Hells and Fins. However I will not be able to make this trip.

by **Andrew** Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:25 am

Honestly, I say we plan Sevenmile Rim for Thursday morning - that should give everyone a good idea of whether or not they want to attempt more difficult trails. It's the "easiest" of the difficult trails in Moab. Plus, it has some great scenery and we could even hike around a little, if people wanted to. On your list above, you have it rated higher than Flat Iron Mesa, which I believe is incorrect. I've never run Flat Iron Mesa, but Charles Wells has it ranked as the 8th most difficult trail, whereas Sevenmile Rim is 20th most difficult.

Sevenmile will take about a half day (assuming we do all the little scenic "side trips") so we could also plan for an afternoon trip. Tusher Tunnel and Bartlett Was Road (both Easy) start right at the end of Sevenmile.

I've run Kane Creek probably a half dozen times. It really isn't hard at all until you climb out of the creek through some rock ledges (and then drive along a cliff edge for a few miles Smile

). However, I heard that last year the rains wiped out more of the trail so difficulty may have increased? Ty, there is 1 off-camber section due to road washout, but it is not bad at all.

by **Kevin** Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:38 am

I haven't been on Seven Mile or Flat Iron, so I'm working from heresay. I must have been thinking of something else, because Traildamage has Seven Mile rated easier too.

Thardy wrote:However I will not be able to make this trip.

u suck

by Ty Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:56 am

I've never ran Kane creek, I had only heard about the off camber spot and thought I would harass Kevin a bit!! Tusher Tunnel and Bartlett wash both super easy and fun. The tunnel is pretty cool!

by **Andrew** Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:13 am

Kevin wrote:I haven't been on Seven Mile or Flat Iron, so I'm working from heresay. I must have been thinking of something else, because Traildamage has Seven Mile rated easier too.

Thardy wrote:However I will not be able to make this trip.

u suck

OK, now I'm really depressed. I shall go into hiding again...

by **dutchman** Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:17 am

I'm good to try some of the more difficult trails, but I'll need to get home in one piece. I've only been to Moab once and I was a passenger so I don't remember the trails well. Kevin, you probably know best what trails I'll be able to get through and if everyone wants to try the harder stuff I'll hop in one of the more built rigs.

by **Kevin** Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:47 am

clfrnacwby wrote:
Thardy wrote:However I will not be able to make this trip.
OK, now I'm really depressed. I shall go into hiding again...

See what you did now, Ty? You've ruined it for everybody.

by **offroad_medic** Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:01 am

I'll try to keep up with Brady as much as I possibly can. What I don't have in lift I'll make up for with locker and bad assness. I also have to be able to drive hone though

by **Kevin** Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:23 am

It's not so much a question of whether or not you guys can make it through a trail, at least not until we start talking about buggy stuff. It's more a question of how long we want to take messing with straps and winches and stacking rocks. Brady hasn't made it up Radiator Rapids yet - that doesn't mean he can't, it just means we haven't taken the time to get him up it yet.

Well, that and body damage. You guys don't mind body damage, right? Twisted Evil

by **dutchman** Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:51 am

Kevin wrote:You guys don't mind body damage, right?

Doesn't bother me any.

by mikebontoft Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:33 am

I'd prefer not to get any... but damn it that's why I got a Jeep. So I wouldn't be worried to take it off road.

It's all Ty's fault - living up to the quote.

by **offroad_medic** Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:45 am

I'm okay with certain amounts of body damage. I don't want to look like a raisin but bumpers can definitely be used for their intended purpose.

by Wolf_Girl Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:24 pm

Hi all! Just dropping by from the T4R forum to say hi and let you guys know I'd love to attend. Since my '87 is my ride home, I don't want to rip out my cv axles or risk flipping my rig - so easy to moderate trails for me- if possible!

by mikebontoft Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:45 pm

welcome!

I've still got CV axles that Kevin gave me which I'll bring along.

by **Andrew** Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:15 pm

Wolf_Girl wrote:Hi all! Just dropping by from the T4R forum to say hi and let you guys know I'd love to attend. Since my '87 is my ride home, I don't want to rip out my cv axles or risk flipping my rig - so easy to moderate trails for me- if possible!

We definitely do not demand that people tear up their rigs just to get through trails. You push your rig to your comfort level - there is no shame in taking a bypass or taking a strap. Make sure you post the specifics of you rig in the Members' Rides section, we'd love to see it!

Oh, and welcome!

*Note: Just ignore Tyson - he loves to break hearts and continually shatter the dream of us actually ALL getting together and wheeling our rigs... Evil or Very Mad

by **dutchman** Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:26 pm

clfrnacwby wrote:We definitely do not demand that people tear up their rigs just to get through trails.:

The exception to this is whenever any one spots Tyson.

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