Ty's 1996 4Runner "FARM TOY"

yeah, if you have a pass drop d44, it'll be way cheaper. I'd recommend what Andrew says. I just assumed you have a driver's drop d44.

The main advantage to duals over a single 4.7 case is that sometimes 5th gear with 4.7s is too slow, and 1st in hi is too fast. The duals get you more in-between gears. Is it worth the extra cost/hacking up of your rig? I guess it all depends on how much wheeling you do at that speed.

My axle is driver drop.

I know it's not cheap nothing on it is. I do want to do the crawl box rather than going passenger drop.

Steve on. Did Your Tacoma have 2 sticks or did the original control it all?

Also I plan on 4.7 gears so I won't need the input shaft because it should be included.

Thardy wrote:My axle is driver drop.
Steve on. Did Your Tacoma have 2 sticks or did the original control it all?

My tacoma has two shifters. One is hi/low, the other is the stock j-shifter.

Thardy wrote:Also I plan on 4.7 gears so I won't need the input shaft because it should be included.

I don't recommend this (and neither do others).

When you run 4.7s and duals, they recommend you put the 4.7's in the rear case. Additionally, they don't recommend engaging the front case without first engaging the rear case. Can you do it for a few miles? Sure, but it'll put more stress on the shaft between your cases. I promise that the duals will be low enough for you, especially with the torque of the v6.

Good enough for me. Less money any ways

yeah, duals will be fine. I never wanted my tacoma any slower.

I had dual ultimates (duals with 4.7's in the rear) in one of my rigs. It was cool how slow it was, but it made trails take forever since I was moving so slow. I only engaged it about 4 times ever, and I didn't need to, it was just to show off.

So with the duals the stock case runs the 2wd and 4wd and the crawl box runs the hi low right

Thardy wrote:So with the duals the stock case runs the 2wd and 4wd and the crawl box runs the hi low right

Correct. To be more anal, the stock case allows for 2WD and 4WD High and 4WD Low. What's nice about the crawl box is that you can leave the stock case in 2WD and put the crawl box in Low...getting a nice 2.28:1 reduction to the rear driveshaft. With my 4cyl. and 37's I use that ALL the time.

You guys probably think I'm retarded. I'm just trying to grasp it. Thanks for your help.

Thardy wrote:You guys probably think I'm retarded. I'm just trying to grasp it. Thanks for your help.

It's a lot to fill your head with. I thought I knew a fair bit about setting up duals, but you notice I shut up a couple pages ago...

I'm going to do 4.7s before I do duals. If that's not enough I can always go further, but I suspect I won't need more than that.

On my 91 regular cab, I had a single 4.7 with the 22re, 5-speed manual and 33's. It worked well.

My brother is running the 4.7 in his 83 22r and it works great. It should be enough for me. To bad I have to do the doubler to get it there.

So another stupid question. With the double you said that the main (original) case runs 2/4 hi and 4 low. So does that run the 2.28 gears and the second stick drop it to the 4.5 or what ever it figures out to be?

Thardy wrote:My brother is running the 4.7 in his 83 22r and it works great. It should be enough for me. To bad I have to do the doubler to get it there.

Why do you have to do the doubler? There's an adapter that goes between your trans and the gear-driven t-case, right? I know that's what I had to do with the a340 auto on my '86, is the t-case on your manual that different? You've already got the case, get the adapter and slap the 4.7s in your case and bob's your uncle.

There is an adapter but then I have to come up with a passenger drop axle.

Thardy wrote:So another stupid question. With the double you said that the main (original) case runs 2/4 hi and 4 low. So does that run the 2.28 gears and the second stick drop it to the 4.5 or what ever it figures out to be?

The early transfer case has two sections, a reduction section and then the actual transfer section that engages or disengages the front driveline. The factory setup ties both those functions into the one 4wd lever, but that's what twin sticks are for, to give you one lever that controls hi/low and another that controls 2wd/4wd independant of eachother. When you set up dual cases, what you're really doing is removing the reduction section from an existing case and putting it between your transmission and another complete case. That's the crawl box, and all it does is go from high to low range. Then you've got another complete transfer case behind that, which has another reduction section in addition to the transfer section. Throw both reduction sections into low range, and you've got double low range, and if you put the first case into low range you can get 2-low. If you put twinsticks on the rear reduction section, you can get 2-doublelow.

What Steve is saying is that if you're only going to put one case in low range, it should be the rear one unless you upgrade the input on the front case to 23 spline or whatever it is.

Thardy wrote:There is an adapter but then I have to come up with a passenger drop axle.

Oh, that makes sense. See how bad your SAS is messing you up, that's a chunk of extra coin it's going to cost you...

Either way if I keep the IFS I will have to do the doubler. If I SAS I can either find a passenger drop axle and adapt to my gear drive case or use my driver drop axle and go with the doubler.

Thardy wrote:So another stupid question. With the double you said that the main (original) case runs 2/4 hi and 4 low. So does that run the 2.28 gears and the second stick drop it to the 4.5 or what ever it figures out to be?

I am one of those who does not completely understand a concept until I see it in action. Stop by my house anytime and I'll show you how my setup works.

[quote="Kevin"]

Thardy wrote:What Steve is saying is that if you're only going to put one case in low range, it should be the rear one unless you upgrade the input on the front case to 23 spline or whatever it is.

Not quite what I"m saying, but close. Dual cases setups between a 1st & 2nd Gen are FAR different than a 3rd gen.

Thardy, your tranny output is 23 spline. No matter what, you can't put a t-case or crawl box, or anything behind your tranny unless it's 23 spline. It won't work with a 21 spline.

Even with a 23 spline input shaft, you still don't want to engage the front case and leave the rear case in hi. You're stressing the 2nd input shaft when you put the front case in low and run the rear in high.

[quote="sixstringsteve"]

Kevin wrote:

Thardy wrote:What Steve is saying is that if you're only going to put one case in low range, it should be the rear one unless you upgrade the input on the front case to 23 spline or whatever it is.

Not quite what I"m saying, but close. Dual cases setups between a 1st & 2nd Gen are FAR different than a 3rd gen.

Thardy, your tranny output is 23 spline. No matter what, you can't put a t-case or crawl box, or anything behind your tranny unless it's 23 spline. It won't work with a 21 spline.

Even with a 23 spline input shaft, you still don't want to engage the front case and leave the rear case in hi. You're stressing the 2nd input shaft when you put the front case in low and run the rear in high.

I understand that. I was waiting for you to comment because you explain better.

So what is the difference if any between a crawl box and dual setup.?

Thardy wrote:So another stupid question. With the double you said that the main (original) case runs 2/4 hi and 4 low. So does that run the 2.28 gears and the second stick drop it to the 4.5 or what ever it figures out to be?

Here's how it works.


Tranny --> Crawl box (1.0 or 2.28) --> stock case (1.1 2wd, 1.0 4wd, or 2.4 4wd)


So the crawl box is just a single lever. You push it forward for hi (1:1) and pull it back for low (2.28:1). The stock rear case acts exactly like it does now. You've got 2wd hi, 4wd hi, and 4lo.

THe crawl box runs both 1.0 gears (hi) and 2.28 gears (low). WHen you shift the lever, you're changing between hi and low.

FYI, you can't run a twin stick on the 3rd gen chain-driven case. Kevin's info is accurate for all gear-driven cases, but it gets funky when you add a chain driven case.

Thardy wrote:So what is the difference if any between a crawl box and dual setup.?

All dual setups have a crawl box.

A crawl box is made by basically taking a top shift t-case and only keeping half of it (the half that shifts between 1.0 (hi) and 2.24) low).

THis part is the crawl box:

http://www.marlincrawler.com/sites/all/marlin/files/mc07r10_Unit640.jpg


You bolt your stock t-case behind it.

That's what I thought. So I can run the low in the rear (stock) case with out running low in the front case right?

Here's a better picture. It's for a 1st gen, but the names/functions are the same.


http://board.marlincrawler.com/images/forum/MC09-C_wrds.jpg


THe "gear drive reduction unit" is also called a "crawl box."

Thardy wrote:So I can run the low in the rear (stock) case with out running low in the front case right?

CORRECT! In fact, that's how you should run 2.57 low. If you want double-low, you engage the front case, and it ends up acting like a 4.8 low (or something close to that number).

The benefit of duals is that you can run the rear case in stock 2.57 low. This is good for most wheeling. WHen you need to really crawl, you engage the front gear reduction.


One interesting fact. gear-driven cases use a 2.28:1 low. 4Runner and Tacoma chain-driven tcases have a 2.57 low (slightly lower).