Re: Official MTB Thread

[frieed]

how long was the prev. stem ?
Mine's a 90mm and I'd like to bring the bars closer to me.

[Kevin]

It was something stupid long like 110 or 120. All the rage for a 2011 XC bike.

[frieed]

hmm... you wanna part with it? I could make it shorter.

[Kevin]

Sure.

[TRD270]

Now you have me questioning if 70mm is still too long. My Diamondback has 40mm, I figured splitting the distance would yield a decent result. Didn't want it to feel to squirrelly, which I know can happen if you get short. Whats your head tube angle Kevin? I can't find a confirmed source for the Trek but I think its 69

[Kevin]

Whats your head tube angle Kevin?

70.

http://archive.fujibikes.com/2011/Fuji/outland-29er-30

[frieed]

i'm interested in a shorter stem because I would have been better off with the next smaller size frame.

[TRD270]

I'm hoping these little changes will make the bike more fun. I bought this bike in 2011 and didn't have a lot of knowledge, I bought it to get around base while I was stuck in Texas for 3 months which is why its had the street tires on it. I've never been super comfortable on the bike.

While I have no regrets on the diamondback as its a blast and I like have a full suspension bike with the efficiency they come with now. These minor changes could have saved me some cash last year. But I know a lot more about bikes now than I did a year ago.

[Kevin]

I'm hoping these little changes will make the bike more fun. I bought this bike in 2011 and didn't have a lot of knowledge

Yeah. I knew a little bit when I got the Fuji but still it was mostly what was there so I grabbed it. Now I've got five screens open to the geometry pages on various bikes and a list with a couple more on it and I've got analysis paralysis. This is worse than buying tires, I liked it better when I didn't know shit.

[dutchman]

Worse than buying tires?! I forgot to do the analysis part for the new bike...

[Kevin]

Worse than buying tires?!

Seriously.

Here's my pain.  I've been drooling over the Trek Stache for a while, I might have mentioned it once or twice.  Short chainstays, slackish head tube, 29+, 1x11, dropper post, Boost hubs, I pop a little chubby just thinking about it.  So why didn't I pull the trigger the other day when I was staring at one in Scheels?  Well, the base Stache 5 at around $1700 isn't spec'd very well.  Deore stuff isn't terrible, but I want better if I'm going to pay that much for a bike, and the dropper post isn't serviceable, which means once it chokes it's done.  That sounds like a bike I'm going to upgrade stuff on.
The Stache 7 gets me an SLX drivetrain, but it's $2000.  There's got to be better for the price out there, yeah?

I dug around for a couple days, found lots of options in the world of hardtail plus bikes with trail geometry.  The Surly Krampus is on that list of course, around $1500.  It's not as trailish, with a little longer chainstays and a little steeper steer tube so that's a small minus.  It's a 29+, which I'm infatuated with the idea of.  It's a steel frame with LOTS of brazeons, which is another plus for what I have in mind.  It has the option to run any hub size I want in the rear, which is cool, but it also comes with SRAM NX components (which I think are barely better than Deore if at all), I'm not sure I'll like the rigid fork, and I know I'd prefer a dropper post so despite the lower price I think it's probably less bang for the buck than the Stache.

Enter the next trail hardtrail on my list, a Salsa Timberjack.  It's not the Salsa I want, but maybe it's the Salsa I need right now.  For the screaming price of $1100 I get an aluminum frame, 27+ (not 29+), a Rockshox TK Judy TK Silver (not awesome, probably not terrible) and guess what?  NX drivetrain.  Also the choice of two terrible colors, white or orange, and damn Salsa for putting the shitty colors on the lower spec'd bikes to make me want to move up.  Ok, let's move up.  The Timberjack GX1 clocks in at $1400 with a Rockshox Recon RL and a very pretty Smoke paint job.  Still NX components though, what the hell?  And the brakes are SRAM Level, which has a terrible rep.  To get into a Shimano SLX drivetrain (still a step below what I just put on Anklebiter) I need to put down $1700.  The Timberjack SLX has a Rockshox Judy Gold, which is a danged good shock, and Shimano hydro brakes, which are decent, but a screaming yellow paint is not on my List Of Awesome Things.  And still no dropper post.  The one intriguing thing about the Timberjack is it runs Salsa's Alternator dropout setup, which lets you adjust your rear dropout to modify the chainstay length and hub width.  Intriguing, but probably wouldn't let me run 29+ without some hefty modding.  So, still not really standing out from the Stache in terms of value - at the same price point I upgrade the drivetrain but lose the 29+ and dropper post (such as it is).

But these are all trendy brands, and I'm paying for the name.  Let's dig deeper, and have a look at the Jamis Dragonslayer.  At first glance, it seems like an amazing blend of Krampus and Timberjack.  Steel frame with trail geometry, tasty brazeons, and an adjustable rear dropout.  A Rockshox Recon RL and 1x11 SLX drivetrain, Shimano hydraulic disc brakes, at $1500 it's got a lot going for it.  BUT it's a 27+/29 frame, not a 29+, and I could maybe play the same games with the rear dropout to fit a 29+ but I'd rather not.  And I'd have to spring another $250 plus or minus for a dropper.  So I like it over the Timberjack, but just barely.

Deep in a thread on the MTBR forums I found a reference to the Marin Pine Mountain.  The Pine Mountain 1 is also a cro-mo frame with all the brazeon mounts, also comes with a Recon RL, a 1x11 drivetrain with Shimano SLX components and Shimano hydro brakes.  And at $1300 it's a couple hundred cheaper than the Jamis, is this the winner?  Maybe not so much, the head tube is 69* and the seat tube is 72*, which is getting away from the trail geometry that I want.  And it's Boost, but doesn't have the adjustable rear dropout.  And I'd still have to spring for a dropper post.  So I'm intrigued, but I'd need to ride one to see how it feels.  Anybody wanna give me odds on finding an XL Marin Pine Mountain in town?

Fuji makes a 27+ hardtail.  The Bighorn 1.5 is $1500, with a Rockshox Judy Silver, NX drivetrain, and SRAM Level brakes.  Basically a Timberjack NX1 for $100 more and lacking the adjustable dropout.  I'll pass.

The Norco Fluid 2 rounds out my list so far.  Aluminum (meh), trail geometry, Recon RL, dropper post, $1350, it looks good.  But it's that damned NX drivetrain, and the Tektro brakes with 160mm wouldn't cut it.  So it's a Stache with 27+ instead of 29+, and I'd probably pay the extra couple hundred for the 29+ on the Stache, and that brings me full circle and no closer to making up my mind.

I really really like the idea of the 29+.  The Stache and Krampus have that advantage in my head from the start.  A 27+ is going to have the same approximate diameter as the 29s I'm on now, with a better traction patch so if the deal on the bike was right I'd take one for sure.  I also might like a 29x2.4 or 2.6 almost as much, and I might be able to sneak that size into a 27+ frame, but that's a maybe - I'd need to know exact with between the chainstays and seatstays, and that's not published information.  So I'd need to find the bikes in a shop and put a tape measure on them.  If I went with the Salsa or Jamis with their adjustable dropouts I'm pretty sure I could fab my own dropout to fit a 29x3 on the back, but then I'd still have to spring for a front fork that'd fit the larger size in the front, AND a 29x wheel and tire set.  Money money money.

So my options are to buy a lesser bike and hold out as long as I can before I start upgrading stuff, or save more and increase my budget to the $2000-$2500 range to get the components I want.  OR, and this is a big OR, buy a bare frame and reuse as much of the Anklebiter as I can.  Depending on which frame and whether I stick with the wheels and fork I've got or spring for new stuff would determine how much that would cost - a factor there is getting the frame itself, because not all those makers sell bare framesets and when they do it tends to be a carbon or titanium frame that costs more than the complete bikes I'm looking at.

So yeah.  Worse than buying tires, IMO.  So many more options to worry about.  I was hoping that writing all this out would help me make up my mind, but it didn't.  And to make it worse, the Amazon shock I ordered for Anklebiter showed up dead as a doornail, so I'm sans bike while I shop.  I'm very bummed.

[TRD270]

Cottonwood Cyclery near where my rental is a Jamis and Marin dealer, they might have those bikes in stock for you to look at

[Kevin]

Cottonwood Cyclery near where my rental is a Jamis and Marin dealer, they might have those bikes in stock for you to look at

Depending on what the seller wants to do about this busted shock they sent me, I'll probably start calling around to see who has what in stock that I can ride. I don't want to buy a bike right now but I gotta have something to ride.

[Kevin]

Better throw this guy on the list: https://www.fezzari.com/mountain-bikes/solitude-29er-nx1

It's a little outside the budget, but $2200 for a carbon frame!

[Kevin]

Just found out the SRAM NX uses a Shimano freehub. That changes the flavor of the koolaid for sure, I wouldn't need a new freehub to swap my XT stuff on...

[Kevin]

Hey look. https://www.diamondback.com/mason-pro-45510

That chain stay length tho...

[TRD270]

Whats the difference in NX and GX? The diamondback has GX on it, now that I finally have it adjusted right i'm pretty happy

[Kevin]

Whats the difference in NX and GX? The diamondback has GX on it, now that I finally have it adjusted right i'm pretty happy

Just based on the prices and seeing what's specd on which bikes, it seems like SRAM has NX positioned roughly ahead of Shimano's Alivio/Acera/Altus garbage but slightly behind Deore? Not quite the casual entry-level stuff. GX probably sits between Deore and SLX, and then Shimano has XT, then the SRAM Eagle stuff goes up against Shimano's XTR line.

[dutchman]

My head hurts...

[TRD270]

Well after having to wait for a second set of grips to come since the first shipped with out the bolts for the clamps, I finally got all the parts swapped on the Trek. Sooooooooooo much better, i'm glad I didn't go any shorter on the stem or I think it would feel a bit cramped. That being said the steering is so much more lively now and no more numb wrists or aching back.

[Kevin]

https://youtu.be/LuWp-rM6ctQ?t=247

hahahahaha

[TRD270]

https://youtu.be/LuWp-rM6ctQ?t=247

hahahahaha

Speaking from experience?

[Kevin]

Speaking from experience?

Not mine.

[dutchman]

Leaving a wheel at home sucks!!!

[dutchman]

Get your shock situation figured out yet?

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